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  FOX News    Stossel    News/Business.  
   Current consumer issues.  

    August 18, 2013
    7:00 - 8:01pm PDT  

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this book. >> all right. great one, mark levin. [ applause ] and thanks all of you for coming, as well. that is all the time we have left this evening. as always, let no goodbye. >> we want the police to ke >> can't the police keep us safe. >> we have to do everything to protect the city. >> how much power is too much power? >> the city has been virtually shut down. >> the police that's our show tonight. >> and now, john stossel. >> police state? america is not a police state. for the most part we are pretty free. recently however we did learn
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that government branch records of our phone calls and e-mails know who we talked to and when i am not all that upset about it. i think my political enemies already spy on my calls and e-mails. it is a slippery slope. it could lead to terrible things. there are already things that by government does that upset me more. bradley balco rights about them in his new book "the rise of the warrior cop." what do you mean warrior cop? >> they are armed like soldiers trained in timilitary tactics a equipment like humvee's. >> humvees, tanks, helicopters battle grade guns. for a long time they were reserved for emergency situations like fugitives or active shooter or hostage taking situation. >> you want to go in with a lot of power. >> you have lives at steak.
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i don't think anybody is opposed. they are overwhelmingly used today is in a way that creates violence and confrontation where there wasn't before. when you send in armed men into a home overnight you are creating confrontation and you are listening to a final response from people. i argue drug dealers shoot back is because they think they are being robed by another drug dealer when the federal government starts sending swat teams into the medical marijuana dispense res these are businesses operating under state laws. the hippie mom and mop couple are not going to kill a bunch of federal agents. using this kind of force denagat these clinics was about sending a political message making an example because they were flouting federal law. when the government starts using violence to make a political statement i think we need to have a serious discussion about whether that is an appropriate tactic in a free society. >> they are using swat teams to
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raise poker games, bars where there's under aged drinking, barbershops. >> now we are seeing mission treatment swat teams. even regulatory inspections are in a lot of areas. there was a group of tibetan monks. they had a swat team. >> it started in the 70s. there were 300 raids a year. >> yes. this used to be the last resort. the last thing you did when you had -- when no other approach would work. now we are seeing it as the first resort police use. in 2005, 50,000 swat raids a year. >> he served two tours in iraq. >> he woke to the sound of his wife screaming. after telling his wife and youngest son to hide in the
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closet he grabbed his military weapon and walked out to the hallway. >> police who were conducting a drug raid shot 71 bullets he would never disengage his safety 22 times. >> and he lay on the board bleeding vanessa called 911. >> john: the paramedics came but they would not allow them to treat >> they wouldn't allow them to treat her husband for more than an hour. they had to secure the scene. in that time the marine bled to
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death. this has to be a very extreme example. >> in my research for the book i found over 50 cases where a completely innocent person was killed in these raids. even when the raid happened the police department admitted if he had survived they didn't find anything they could arrest him for they found no evidence of a crime. >> was the drug charge and they didn't find any evidence of drug dealing in the house. >> it appears they were being related to someone who was involved in it. >> this one from missouri it's the swat team who had a drug dealer. >> drug raids like this one happen more than 100 times every day. a swat team broke into this family's house, shot their dog. once inside they didn't find any drugs. the owner was just charged with possessing drug pair fan nail
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yaw. >> when this raid went viral people were outraged. people sent angry hate mail to the police department. there's nothing unusual about that raise. that was not a botched raid it went exactly as it was supposed to go. everything from the shooting of the dog to the fact that there was a child inside they didn't know about they used the battering ramp. the only thing unusual about that raid is it was recorded and posted on-line. >> in 2011 the sheriff's office used two armored vehicles and a swat team to raid the cock fighting club. >> that raid steven segal the action hero now reality tv star had been signed up as a deputy with the county sheriff's department. there were tv cameras following. he drove a tank into the poor guy's living room. >> i think we have video of steven segal in there talking about that.
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>> we have a team with the swat team and they rolled out on this whchlt they roll out i roll out. >> his swat team. >> in this tank, this is a tank and they got it from the pentagon through this program. it is designed for use in battle. it shoots 50 caliber ammunition. they were using it in a cock fighting investigation. >> we have heard your arguments. let's talk to the police. sheriff martin you have a swat team. you say it's a swat team. when airplanes land safely that's not new. when it happens it is not new. although he makes good points a lot of this is anecdotal information. i will tell you day in and day outlaw enforcement serves warrants. it makes probable cause safer. >> but for a drug raid or a cock
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fighting ring why all of the early morning knock your door down stuff? >> i have been associated with 250 to 500 raids. never used them for gambling excursio excursions. we use a matrix whether or not the person has a previous criminal history whether or not there's guns involved the value that we receive. i think it's a safer use of equipment keeping law enforcement officers safer as a result of it. >> you are right. very few of these raids end upper taj wise looking at a different person dying. they are preserved for cases that have already committed an act of violence and already in the process of it. never had a public debate whether it was suspected in a
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crime. >> i would say law enforcement in america we take serious our response. i will also tell you that a public forum our communities are asking us how old we respond to a columbine? how old -- how would we respond? >> we always over react. that's the great thing. we are bound to the local control of our communities. the local school board said what would i do if there was a raid in our school. columbine has a situation. i can't say we don't have a response to that. probably not going to happen. we don't have trained police officers. >> a bear cat armored vehicle. >> the last time i used a bear cat it was four weeks ago. we had a husband who shot and killed his wife and approached
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the house. now it is our presence trying to establish contact and negotiation. that's a safe way to approach that house. i am not sending fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters into these homes without them being prepared. >> that is a situation where someone has given the immediate threat that he have for this life. that response is appropriated. when we are spending swat teams in. you are creating violence. i think it's important law enforcement. >> they really are. nobody gets fired, not everybody gets fired. i think it teals appropriate. in the 250 we are involved in, no. >> i am conflicted about some of this.
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i hate cops who act like bullies but then i watch these tv shows like law and order. i give to to the cop. >> earl sally. earl? >> where were you at 10 in the morning? >> later in the show it revealed that guy was not the bad guy. he was innocent. the cops searched his house without a warrant. i as a viewer i was okay with that. i watch the show all of the time. i should be saying, hey, is this constitutional? i am a libertarian. >> you bet a little rush watching that. they tend to -- the ago tive they use to describe the feelings they get in these raids are similar to theage gjek tives we use to describe the feeling you get with the drugs they are
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conducting. >> the adrenaline. >> it is intoxicating. the raids themselves could become habit forming. >> one other twist on this. the defense we have is modern technology. when people think of 1984 the government used many pam raws. to batch people. the pundits said it's going to give government will we still have power. the people there's religious power then this video turns up it showed the officer was that cop was eventually fired. maybe video like these is why
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some people don't want to be seen. >> i am wearing nothing. i have no pep upons. i don't understand. >> the officer took her to jail with obstructing governmental administration. >> i did nothing. john: >> that was a traffic stop outside of her house. the charges against her were eventually dropped only after she was harassed by police for making that video public. >> i am an advocate for video cameras. i tell my law enforcement officers all of the time you are fine. we want to be able to show the community and develop trust. >> we put cameras in our cruisers. i think you will see in the next 10-15 years you will see body cameras all across the country. and don't you think it maybe
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encourages the rouge cop to behave better? >> i think it's a measure of accountability. thank you. coming up with thinks ster was fired with tickets. mother shall law. the city and surrounding area. stay in place. how do you do a summer clearance event the dodge way? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪ the dodge summer clearance event. right now get 0% financing for to 72 months and no payments for 90 days on all dodge vehicles.
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it's a reality check. i had my reality check when i'd be sitting there with my friends who had their verizon phones and i'd be sitting there like "mine's still loading!" i couldn't get email. i couldn't stream movies. i couldn't upload any of our music. that's when i decided to switch. now that i'm on verizon, everything moves fast. with verizon, i have that reliability. i'm completely happy with verizon. verizon's 4g lte is the most reliable and in more places than any other 4g network. period. that's powerful. verizon. get the nokia lumia 928 for free.
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>> heavily armed police s.w.a.t. >> sharpshooter and fbi ain'ts are swa -- agents. >> all they can do is supply. >> massachusetts people were looking for the boston marathon bomber and they were right to shut down the town says james carafano from the heritage foundation but jim harper says no. that is a recipe for a police state. i said the bright people made the decision with the elected officials to make that decision but personally
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as a public safety measure measure, it was over the top but i am not accountable to the people of my city. if it works the way it is supposed to the people responsible made the decision by retrospect tells us obviously it was an overreaction. hundreds of millions of dollars of lost economic opportunity and the people of boston are strong and resilient. >> base the decision they made based on the fact that they had at the time. >> is not the decision to make but they should trust the people of their city to defend themselves to some degree. john: they were completing? >> they were not complaining. we should not castoff confidence because of fear
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smith that is why they delectation of mayor so where the secret service, will have a national convention in to shut down the entire city in the mayor said i will bet not do that then the secret service says it is your city >> that does not actually help and when they levelled guns. >> you sent us this picture pointing the gun right as somebody's window. >> my gun training was that you should never point a gun he did not want the bullet to travel we have people leveling guns on an innocent civilians. >> they have to point is something they were looking for a guy who may have had a machine gun or grenades and. >> by a professional law enforcement is not allowed
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to point to what is that people inside their homes through the because somewhere in the city someone may have the bomb. >> that is a great point. professionals have to act professional. we have a lot of examples. >> this is after hurricane katrina he said i declared martial law. >> he can't. it has to be congress or the president. >> that need to render the responsibility of the military they declare martial law because they think people are incompetent to defend themselves but people actually come together with there ising emergency situation we found out where nothing bad happened with the power outages and in boston people to strangers into their homes because the hotels have closed they can handle things better than leaders thank. >>.
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>> the what about the police over reach? >> there were no tanks in boston this is the most fearsome of vehicle that the boston police used in the ian hunt. it is about as scary as the armored trucks that move cash to and from the neighborhood bank. john: notes carrier? i saw pictures of the camouflaged humvee with a turret on the topic is like the people at nbc even like it to. talk about the and essays by may agree that they lied to us. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all? 1 million hundreds of millions of americans? >> nosair. john: it turns out the real answer is yes but he lied about it. >> to support the data gathering? >> if you have a problem
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that people and congress should have a problem with themselves because they write the laws because they are clear in specific. >> it is weird they break up and say oh my god there's gambling. what did they think we were writing these laws for? john: so much other stuff i hate about my government. data mining they are not listening to individual calls to stop the terror. >> i am for the constitution the first time we have seen a general warrant because that is flatly banned by the u.s. constitution. as a practical matter. john: during the time of the revolution. >> came george allow the troops to rummaged the homes under a general war did that was offensive they sometimes still think that is what is happening with our data. john: but it is not.
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soldiers are not in my house >> because your home is outside onto the internet communication with loved ones, the medical information, internet. john: with terrorism they claimed 50 incidents. >> they are wrong they have not substantiated with any real evidence in the best experts senator udall and senator weinstock -- senator white in disagree that this has prevented any terrorism. if it goes to the supreme court then they will stop. if congress does not like the of law that congress wrote that it contains a lot john: why should i care? >> it isn't anybody's business. when a person is innocent what they have done with their life whether calling or surfing the in their -- and is not the government's business but it is being gathered anyway.
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john: i tried to get worked up about this i have 100 other things about government over reach the that i hate more. thank you. jim and james. if you drive through this town police may threaten to take your children. this police officer was fired for telling the truth telling about the secret ticket quotas. ticket quotas. next. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. [announcer] there's no hiding the beneful baked delights.from new heartfuls are made with real bacon... ...and oven-baked to crisp perfection. new heartfuls from beneful baked delights.
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john: to police officers have ticket >> police officers 100 tickets a month or you are in trouble. no says the police department we don't have quotas. some ban quotas. not alabama. the town of auburn officers were told that they had to write 100 tickets every month if they didn't they would be in trouble. officer justin tanner complained
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about that and shortly after he complained he was fired. you are out of the police department out of police work. >> once you blow the whistle you are black listed. >> in fairness it wasn't just that you complained about it. you complained publically. you secretly videotaped your sergeant giving this order? >> we will have 100 contacts per month minimum. >> you did this because they were lying saying they are not going to admit to it? >> they will say we won't have quotas quality over khan at t s quantity. >> they still say that. at the to they told us we would never implement a quota. it cost us more money to write si tickets than we take in. >> that is what they claim.
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the chief said we get $34 a ticket. that's 800,000 dollars i don't know where the unwritten costs are. >> it is counter productive. you become a react tive police force. you dual return the crimes and once it happens you show up after the fact. you go back to writing tickets. >> there are unintended consequences national correspondent people. >> they have so many contacts they are going to go to the easiest way to get it. we observed a gentlemen walking on the sidewalk. he had uneasy balance we have to make sure he is okay. he lives a few blocks from the bar. knows who he was.
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it was cooperated and we determined he was no threat to himself to the public. they told us to go back and arrest him. he told me i needed it for my staff. i refused. >> a kid with a fake idea. >> he turned up i wrote him a nontraffic violation. the supervisor comes up you have to arrest him for liability p h purposes. when he gets his ticket in the pocket will he will get hurt and he can sue you. that way you are covered. >> they charge him for pissing off the police. >> few cities have explicit quota. they generate 2,000 dollar
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engineer. they don't focus on the citizens at the defense of criminals. you don't have a traffic division is works solely on it. but the bulk of the police force deter and try to de tract them. they try to get around the neighborhoods and businesses. >> thank you justin. coming up ridiculous police aspect in mice town. also government locks up nonviolent mommies and daddies. >> i was sworn ten-days after my dad. what are you doing back there? ow! that hurt! no, no, no, no. you can't go to school like this, c'mon. don't do it!
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>> what should a government do to reduce crime and to persuade
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criminals to that they shouldn't break the law. bill o'reilly thinks he knows. posing harsh mandatory prison time 25 to life for rape. that's why you need mandatory sentences. >> mandatory. lots of legislatures agree with them. they are now almost 200 mandatory minimum sentences in the federal code state there are more. in florida 7 illegal pain pills you get three years minimum. 15 years if you have got 22 pills, 25 years if you are caught with 44. i find this hard to believe but they say it is absolutely true. new beur her sons were locked up for more than a decade because of mandatory minimums. what were they accused of doing? >> one count conspiracy of
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cocaine. there were no drugs, no guns. my sons went to school every day never missed a day in college. >> well they were convicted of intent to distribute cocaine in the specific amount, 10 kilograms and crack 500 grams. the prosecutors must have had some evidence. the prosecutors is the key. they are powerful they created something called a conspiracy and put them in it. no drugs from were found. they didn't have drugs in their system. >> where were the guns and drugs. my son didn't even know the erm informant made up this story and included my son. >> greg, this is dip cal? >> her case is representative of the phenomenon generally. when you have low level offenders for people who maintain their innocence they are the ones that go to trial
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people who know they are guilty they say hey i ne i have done this they take a plea deal. >> they would get out of it. >> it is what we call criminal con spur seechlt>> you are a zich. >> the irony of this is the inintended consequences the people who are at the top of criminal conspiracy. the people who don't know anything less dull pable. they end up everybo serving a difference. >> he ended up with vic tin.
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the american side he would love to have pain dillers. turned out to be ner police officer, they have told them more they have beening 25 years. this publishment was not close behind. i have to send them the defendant for 25 years. there's mow way this sentence the legislatures are giving mow no other option. others would say wore safer bland tory. >> lowest states gotten rid of the minimum. new york repealed the law from 2009 driem is down. michigan revuls all of these
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dreg minimum timing pull it down. it mo moscow. he would not snitching and as a result sentenced 20 years in jail. here is one of his daughters spee becker was born 10 days after my dad went to prison. i am 12 and a half and i'm still waiting. >> a few years after that was taped their father was finally released. >> i had never felt normal in my entire life. >> i felt that there was something missing and i did want people to think i had daddy issues. now i have government issues [laughter] >> these children grew up without a father.
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for what? for what? john: you got the law changed in florida? >> yes. lots of groups working for a mandatory minimums they never gave up and went every day until they got a small reduction but they keep on. >> helped to not more than three years off of your sons sentences. john: thank you. the police have discovered new ways to spy on us. you can hang up your phone and police can still listen to you. ♪ [ male announcer ] some question physics. some question gravity. and some... even have the audacity
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john: the police have new ways to spy on us for years ago they may capture hold full blind but now they can turn your laptop or your cellphone into a listening device and listen to you even when you are not using these things. i did not know belt this but julian sanchez covers privacy for the cato institute. really? >> yes.
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as it turns out it was first reported a few years ago in light of the nsa revelations but most cellphone carriers have the capability to remotely install spy where. john: rigo lee? >> it is like a natural update as a there was a software upgrade to keep it spreading fast. john: i don't call it in the update if the office which does not turn it off. >> that depends on whose idea it is. >> in china they are more aware of the dissidents will often be to each other to take up the battery to put on the table to make sure people take the appropriate precautions. john: what other things? >> ourself loans are tracking devices. john: if they will listen then that also requires a
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warrant? >> listening does but location tracking if you are not using it physically installed device may not. license plate readers to know where every car in this city is, is so fond records records, a checking what tower they were near every time they made a phone call call, a variety of technologies allow us a different ways to we searched disagree with the same backscatter machines at airports to provide the gsa agent with naked images of our bodies but to look under the vehicle or under clothing or a match a suspicious shape. john: cruz dell industry a bad people? be bigger vehicles and. john: the public says you have nothing to worry about if you don't do anything wrong if we are safer. >> but who determines what is wrong? if you look at the history of our country you find a decades-long history of the
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abuse of power for political purposes to suppress dissent to the most the tories case of the decade-long campaign waged by the fbi to destroy and discredit martin luther king to be replaced by what it could be replaced by the right kind of negro leader also women's rights activist of the civil rights leaders, unions, has anyone seen as opposed to the authorities. john: but we are smarter now this would not happen today is immaculate at history and current events around the world becomes clear when people have the power to observe the public without their own actions subject to oversight and accountability , without does watching the watchers they will keep to themselves.
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the authority to determine who is a threat to a and very often someone who has a different political view is a threat to in their eyes as many dissidents were seen as a threat. john: more police now are not using drones. >> miami-dade police with the 18 lb drone used in war zones over the streets and has a camera attached underneath. john: and it will happen more places. so what? the satellites look any way. >> scale matters police can follow someone down the street but what if it was possible to follow everyone all the time? are we willing to except in the name of safety a world where everything everyone
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does is the second they step out of their own front door is now a matter of permanent record to we searched it a couple of years by someone who may not have safety as their primary interest? john: thank-you julian sanchez from the cato institute. next the police in my town and engaged in excess when you realize you need to switch to verizon, it's a reality check.
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>> terror threats. >> it is credible and serious. john: when i hear those alerts i get a little scared i work here time squared year due york city we are a target the statistically crime is a much bigger threat for by a far more likely to we mugged by a junkie the and killed by terrorists. in either case i want the police to protect me into the tools they need but i also want to be left alone. in the police already have special powers. voluntarily or force are the two ways to do things in life. lee the government or police officers have the right to use force a candy cane, a jail or shoots as if necessary. so that is why it is important we have the constitution it limits what
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the police can do but it'll always respect it. like most people they're happy to acquire more power in and buddy and increasingly in america they now use civil forfeiture law to take people's property even if not convicted of a crime. this gives them a powerful incentive to make accusations. toll so oklahoma officers drive around in the escalade that says this used to be a drug dealer's car. now it is ours. be able to keep stuff creates a temptation to get stuff. a district attorney's office in and texas bought the office margherita machine. "the new yorker" reports in texas police stop people for a routine traffic violations and if they haae money with
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them sometimes take them to a jail until they agree to give their money to the city and if they resist because they have kids of the car they will threaten to take the kids away turnover to child protective services. in cells like extortion. use of the port perturb lot is growing in 20 years ago the justice department collected 27 million but last year they grabbed more than $4 billion worth. government always grows. one last example from my town the police chief department did great job reducing crime but it grows even the stupidest ways. >> this is the scene near wall street where one year ago during the occupy wall street protest barricades were placed around a sculpture of the wall street bull and police officers were stationed here.
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>> had to put up the barricades to protect him. >> they had to? know they didn't. it is ridiculous it weighs more than 3 tons and is nearly indestructible. the head of the neighborhood association said the occupied protest was a dangerous situation in hundreds of people literally in the streets because the entire plaza was barricaded the only place to be in the street. >> even the protesters are long gone the barricades are still here forcing pedestrians to walk into the street. it creates new ways and it is dangerous but a request to remove the barricades go unanswered and the police officers are still stationed here also. >> i don't know why they are they're a waste of taxpayer dollars? seems to we taking civil forfeiture law as their freedom.
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>> as jefferson once said that is the natural progress of things. government grossi in freedom yields. that is ever show. begin for watching. we will see you next three. bose ufc fight night. xt three. bose >> tonight on huckabee, another delay in the affordable care act. we delay things and why not delay it permanently and come up with a role solution. >> unaffordable and unpopular, but is obama care unstoppable. >> what you are not reading about is the government actually abusing these programs. and listening in on people's phone calls and inappropriately reading e-mails. >> the new report said that the nsa broke the privacy rules and can anything be done to stop the abuse of pour in washington? plus political